Priyanka: Hey, this is Dr. Priyanka Venugopal and you're listening to The Unstoppable Mom Brain podcast style, image, and identity with master coach Judith Gatton. I am thrilled to bring you today's fun and fabulous podcast conversation with my good friend and fellow colleague, master coach Judith Gatton. Judith is a lawyer turned image and personal style coach for high achieving women who helps them develop and express their personal style so that they can show up as the powerful women that they are. We talked about body image and how to create and find your sense of style, even if you're not at the weight that you yet want to be.
I may have even gotten a little emotional during the conversation because it really brought me back to a time just a few years ago when I was at my personal heaviest and how I used to think about my body and how I dressed myself. I thought for so many years that I had to lose the weight that I wanted to lose before I could treat myself and dress myself.
Well, I didn't have any tissues on hand during the podcast episode, so I managed to keep it together and we had. Before we get into today's episode, I want to make sure that you know about a brand new on demand training that I've created just for you, the high achiever who wants to hit her personal body goal and do it while having fun.
Here's the thing, a diet or a strategic plan might get you into a smaller sized body. But not having the mindset work to match that strategic plan is going to keep your brain desiring overeating. It's the reason that most diets and most plans don't last and why I created this special masterclass for you to start feeling really more in control around any food in any food scenario.
You can go and grab this training for free over at theunstoppablemombrain.com/desire. Okay. Let's get into today's conversation with master coach, Judith.
Priyanka: If you want to reach your ideal weight and create lightness for your body, you need to have simplicity, joy, and strategic decisions infused into your life.
I'm a physician turned life and weight loss coach for ambitious working moms. I've lost over 60 pounds without counting points, calories, or crazy exercise plans. Most importantly, I feel calm and light on the scale and in my life. There's some delicious magic when you learn this work and the skills I'm going to be teaching you.
Ready? Let's get to it.
Hey, my Unstoppable friends. I am so incredibly thrilled to bring on my friend, my peer, and a very, very, very special guest master certified coach, Judith Gaton. She is an attorney turned amazing coach. She's going to tell you what kind of coach she is. I feel like I can't even sum it up in one word. It's like image, fashion, self.
identity, high achieving women, basically feeling like bold ass humans. Like, can we just put that into one word? What would that be? Judith? I don't know. You want to do this? Yeah. All of it. I want you to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got into what you're doing now, especially because you started out being an attorney.
Take it away.
Judith: Oh my God. I love it. That intro was fun. I'm like, yes. Bold ass humans. I love you for all of us. Yes. Hi everyone. I'm Judith Gaton and I am an image consultant, personal stylist, and general life coach for high achieving women. So it could have, there's no way to encompass all that I do, I guess.
And one quick phrase, I used to just say style coach, but I think that. As my friends lovingly coached me, so you'll, you'll be privy to some of the behind the scenes. We were all having these giant croissants that were like as big as your face and we were at this amazing coffee shop in Soho with the morning New Yorkers getting their morning cups of coffee and my friends were around me lovingly were like, can we tell you something?
But whenever we're friends, especially if they're coach friends, get around you and they lean in and, uh, can we tell you something like, it's like, we need your permission,
Priyanka: Judith. Well, listen, can we ask you a very important question?
Judith: Yes. That was so good. And they kind of just lovingly coaxed me into the idea that like style coach does not fully encompass all that I do and that, you know, an image coach or image consultant was a better way to encapsulate all of that.
So Thank you. That's the phrase image consultant, personal stylist, and general life coach. Yes. Yeah.
Priyanka: And I think, you know, a lot of that conversation even stemmed, I mean, first of all, you and I became friends. I don't even remember when we became friends. I think we actually met at an event and then we went to dinner and I think Brig and Bev, we were at dinner together and I feel like I just hit it off with you and then we bonded over Star Trek.
We are both Trekkies. We both love a good Star Trek. There we go. And I feel like we just started messaging each other. And I think that the sense that I got from you and I think even what led to the conversation from style to image was, I mean, you use words like gumption and you talk about Something that is a lot more felt sense than just style.
Like I felt like style was one angle, but kind of what you talk about, which is why I even wanted to have you on the podcast is the whole identity, how women can feel in their clothes. You know, I talk about how women can feel in their bodies, but what you talk about is how do you treat your body? How do you dress her?
How do you take care of her? And it kind of felt like it just encompassed. So much more. So I'm so glad. So tell us a little bit about how you got to becoming a coach that talks about this topic, why it's even relevant for high achievers, especially because you didn't start out doing this. At all. This is like not your career or your profession.
Judith: No, it's funny because I actually went to undergrad to be a fashion designer and then that was hard air quotes and then decided to become a lawyer because I would be, again, air quotes easier, which is insane in retrospect and I was a very good lawyer. I was a litigator. I did complex litigation throughout my career since as a baby attorney all the way through when I decided to stop practicing.
And what I realized along the way was I still had a love for style, like a huge love for style. Huge love, love for fashion. And I had a tremendous love for spending time with really incredibly smart women. Like those are my people. I think it's part of what you and I attracted us to each other. I was like, your face and you're smart.
Let's go. Right. So, yeah. There's something very incredible about being around other, you know, smart cookies for lack of a better way of putting it. And the more time I spent with really smart women who were at the top levels of their career, doing incredible things in the world, whether they were doctors or they're lawyers, accountants, nurses, like all of the really incredible women in my world. I realized that there was this commonality of Operating like you were a body that was divorced from your top half. So it's kind of funny, like you're this floating head and everything's happening in your mind and your brain. You're really cerebral and you're thinking about things and you're problem solving or you're creating really cool shit.
And then it's like the bottom half of you is sort of like floating around, like absent from you somewhere. And I was like, you know, those are connected. And then it was kind of trying to get women to grasp the idea that they are not just a floating head. Their whole human body, they're a fully fledged.
Together are one body and how do we get them back to that idea that understanding that there's only one of them. There's not the compartmentalized versions of them. There's the mom them. And then there's the professional them. And then there's the spouse and then the lover and then the friend and sometimes daughter.
No, there's, there's one of them, only one, uniquely, amazingly one of them. And if we could get her to stop compartmentalizing and show up fully as herself, the size of her ass, the shape of her breasts, I mean, all of her, all the parts of her, how much more powerfully could she show up to do whatever her work is? Right. Yeah. And that has sort of been the heart center of what I do.
Priyanka: You know, and I think this actually might have even spearheaded some of our first conversations because I have been that person, as we've talked about kind of offline, I've been that person who has been really in my head, like really focused on my creativity, what I want to put out in the world, the quality of my work has been a huge one. I, you know, especially as an OBGYN physician, like in my physician life, it was like all Productivity and like results focused. And I, I think that for a really long time, I kept thinking particularly when I was not at the size that I wanted to be, that I would just take care of it later. I had a lot of these like later thoughts, like, let me first be productive.
Let me first, you know, do good work. Let me first check things off my list. Let me first take care of my patients and, you know, my family and the workplace. And then kind of like when I've. Taking care of all those things, then maybe I can take care of myself. And that meant obviously, of course, like my, my efforts to feel good in my body physically.
But like the way that I dressed myself felt like such an afterthought. It felt like, you know, I can, I can get on by, I can scrap on by for now. And. Because it like I don't see how it really matters like I did matter but I'm like maybe it doesn't really matter. So what do you say to that? Because I feel like this is kind of one of one of the first conversations that you and I probably ever had.
Judith: Yeah, and I mean, but if we think like we back up right like. Of course you were thinking that, like most really intelligent, smart women were told well just wait, just go be smart, get the pieces of paper, earn your degrees, get a good career, make a lot of money, like, then you can worry about that other stuff.
Like the other stuff that the other girls worry about, but you, you special, like smart cookie, you just worry about your brain. You go be smart. And we're kind of socialized that way. If you're a really smart woman, like that, that other stuff, right. We're relegated. We're relegating it to stuff is unimportant.Just go be smart. And that will speak for itself. Your accomplishments will speak for themselves. Which is true to a certain point, but then a lot of you high achievers, extremely successful women, eventually you reach a point in your career, your professional life where other humans have to see you. You will be leading teams. You will be in charge of other folks. You'll be managing them. You'll be mentoring them. You'll be doing rounds with them. You'll be teaching them. You're heads of committees, gals. Oh my God, the doctors, you love to gala. It's like a whole thing. Right? So like eventually. Eventually, love, we will need to see you'll reach such a height in your level of success that you will be seen by other folks.And we can't have you just operating in your own head because the world really needs the gift that is you the way you think the way you approach things, your experience, your skills, your knowledge, all of it. And we can't reach that level if literally you are not equipped with what you're wearing to show up in those spaces.
And what I see a lot of times is when my clients come to me, they've waited till the very last minute because they have an important thing coming up. Right. So they're going to chair committee and their ass is on fire when they're shopping. Cause like, but it's next week. I'm like. But you knew about this six months ago.
So sorry, like we could do so much lab, right. Or they're speaking on stages or they're going in front of literally the world health organizations talk about vaccines or like any number of things. And what happens is. It detracts from the important work you have to do if you're actually worried about your clothes because suddenly the clothes became very important, right?
Priyanka: I think that's part of the reason because I've definitely done that. I can think even as you're talking, I'm like, replaying scenes in my mind of events where I left the outfit. You know, with plural because there might have been like more than one for an event needed to the last minute. And I know that the reason the thought that I had was I don't have time for that because I need to spend this time on quote unquote important things, which is like the presentation itself or the quality of like, you know, the actual work that I'm going to be doing.
So I used to tell myself, number one, like, I don't have time for this. I'll get to it later. Or I think the subconscious thought was like, It's not as important as these other things. So what I'm hearing you say is that kind of to be a beacon where you can get out the message you want to get out and show up and, you know, let that important work translate to the people around you, whether it's your local community or your team or your organization. Dressing in a way that lets you feel more like you in your most powerful way. It's almost like it lets you amplify your message. That's kind of what I'm hearing you say. Tell me if that sounds true. Yeah, no,
Judith: Exactly. Because this is why this matters. If we're not dressing in a way where we feel confident, we feel comfortable, then we end up being a distraction and we're detracting from our own message. And that to me, for so many smart women, it would just be such a travesty. You have so many important, you do have important work to do. You do have important things to say. Yes, the work you do is literally more important than whether or not your sweater is red or blue. Yes, I'm all in on this. Until, it becomes such a distraction for you because you're not prepared.
You don't have what you need on hand to go deliver your message. You don't have what you need on hand to feel confident when you walk in your room. So now, instead of focused on the words you're supposed to speak, I actually had someone, two weeks ago, she's in charge of A very large organization of a particular type of therapist, I will just say it and literally all she could think about before delivering this speech to thousands of people was, oh shit, I have nothing to wear, right?
Then we have a problem, right? Because like you have some more things to deliver and now you're distracted by your clothes. Now it's detracting from the time you would have spent prepping for your speech, worrying about what you're going to wear. So yeah, suddenly it did become really important. It always mattered like. Cognition is a real thing. You can go look up tons of studies on it, how we perceive other humans happens in nanoseconds, right? Human heuristics are always at play. Our brains are wired to short circuit information in nanoseconds. And then we determine what we think and feel about this person. So as much as I'd like to say, Oh, it doesn't matter.
That's not the human reality in which we live. It actually really does matter. And because your work is so important in the world, it is important that we dress you appropriately to deliver whatever your message is. Right.
Priyanka: Okay. So I have so many thoughts on this. Okay. So tell me, let's do it. We need to, we need to unravel a couple of things.
So the first one, and this is again, another one you and I have talked about offline. I am a huge creature of comfort. Like I love to feel comfortable and cozy. I want the cozy things. And I often have associated like really nice clothes or like looking really put together with this idea of being uncomfortable.
I don't even know where I came up with that. It's just something I've probably held for many, many years. And in my attempt to be like, Priyanka, you're fine. Like, I'm like, we want, we want to be comfortable. And so what do you think about that? Because I will choose comfort over fashion any day. And I kind of, I don't know whether, and this is maybe part of the reason I loved living in scrubs.
I was like, listen, I have, I can basically wear pajamas. To the hospital. I can deliver babies in this thing. This is so lovely because I felt comfortable in those clothes rather than having to put on. It's not put on a show, but like it feels almost like putting on a show. So what would you say to someone that has that thought?
Like they really want comfort. Comfort is so important to them because it makes me feel it's like, oh, I get to kind of be me. That's the thought. It's like I get to be more me when I feel really comfortable in what I'm wearing. So my objection has always been like that fashionable stuff is just not comfortable. Oh, it's not.
Judith: I wouldn't want to wear it.
Priyanka: Okay. Okay. So yeah, let's talk about it. Right? So like,
Judith: one of my favorite shows of the runway this year was like these latex upside down dresses that were like, kind of like snap on clothes. I don't want to walk around like that. Like, so I think it's important to make the distinction between style and fashion.
Okay, so I like to describe it as like fashion is a circus parade that we get to enjoy going by and we get to kind of laugh and giggle at the feathers and the sequence and the elephants and the hoopla of it all. We get to enjoy it as spectators. Okay. It's separate and apart from style. Style is personal and style is our thoughts and our feelings about where ourselves outwardly reflected in what we choose to put on our bodies.
So that could be good and that could be bad depending on how you're thinking and feeling about yourself. Here's where I think is kind of interesting and you touched on something that I definitely want to go back to is like, I feel like I'm putting on a show or kind of like, I feel like I'm dressing up like someone else.
Yeah. And that's typically because we don't, we're not working with clothing that actually is what you're thinking and feeling in that moment. We're not planning for the whole human. We're just trying to slap a cute outfit on you, send you off into the world. And that's not how actual personal style works.
We need to know how you think about yourself. How do you feel about yourself? How do you live your actual lifestyle? What are your actual body shape requirements? Do you have any sensory issues for clothing? Do you know how many women I serve, this is, oh, I have a pet peeve, like, who have actual sensory issues, like, because either they're on the spectrum, they may be a little neuro spicy, or they just don't like clothing feeling a particular way, but their whole lives they were told, sit still. Well, I'm really itchy, mom. Doesn't matter. Sit still. Don't ruin your nice clothes. Right? Like our beauty is pain. We're all supposed to be slightly uncomfortable in our clothing and right. That's a socialization that I think we could all just do away with. We are not required to be uncomfortable in our clothing in order to look stylish.
Gone are the years of corsets where women are literally fainting because they can't breathe. They're not getting enough oxygen. Like we could all do away with that collectively. Let's not bring it back in some weird form or fashion with modern day clothing.
Priyanka: I think like, so what I'm hearing you say is like that I probably have really kind of crossed the difference between fashion and like being trendy and, you know, kind of like the fun things that you were talking about versus really having a sense of what my style is based on what I think of myself, like, what is the way that I want to think about myself is one angle.
And then the other was like, what is the. image that I want to be portraying in my community, in my organization, in my business. And I, I think that I wonder whether you, I'm guessing you have really helped clients think about how they create their sense of style. Like I was someone right for so many years, medical school, it was like, you know, basically I don't even know what I wore. Pajamas, but like reasonable looking pajamas, like all day long. And then in residency, it was scrubs, right? Every single day. And then definitely in attending life, I remember actually after I graduated residency, I'm like, Oh, I'm going to go to get some nice clothes. I went to J.Crew. I don't know. What do you think about J.Crew? I went to J crew. I got some really cute dresses. Like he, I wore heels. I mean, I was like, who, who am I? I felt so proud of myself as an attending. And then that lasted maybe a month, two months or something. And it was just, I think not. Comfortable for me to see patients in that, in that, in that style. So I went back to wearing basically scrubs all the time.
So I'm curious, like for someone that doesn't know their sense of style and where they've maybe been like me, like wearing scrubs all the time, how do they start to discover where to start creating their sense of style?
Judith: Okay. So this is my favorite thing. And I tell my clients every week, I'm like, this is my favorite.
And I said, I'm like, but everything's going to be my favorite. And they just kind of laughed. So we actually just did style statements with a current group of clients that we have. And I don't like to use a typical paradigm. So typically what would happen if you trick selecting your style, you would take some really lame quiz and they would tell you if you're a classic or bohemian or whatever the people were coming up with, which, I have thoughts about clearly. So I like to use a totally different system where we use a series of questions to help elicit from the client like what they're currently wearing, how they feel about themselves, what their favorite items were, and work them through this process. And then it's incredible what they say to me about the thoughts and adjectives that they have for themselves.
So by way of example, I have a client right now, her, her style statement is polished, vibrant, and a little bit extra. And she works for a big government agency. She oversees a lot of people. And if you met her, it would make so much sense. You'd be like, oh my gosh, yes. And then I have another client who's creative, creatively chill, right?
But if you met her and you knew her personality, this would just make so much sense. She's also hilarious. She cracks me up every time. Sometimes she makes me laugh. I have another client who is chipper and classic. And if you met her, that would make so much sense. So there is a process by which we can elicit from your brain, your thoughts about yourself and have it be, you know, making sure that comfort is the minimum requirement.
So I actually don't allow my clients to include comfortable in their style statements because we all make a pact with each other that their clothing will be comfortable from here on out period of story. It's not comfortable. It doesn't make it into their closet. Right?
Priyanka: Like it doesn't need to be a special word as a part of your style because everything should feel Everything should be like, Judith, what do you mean comfortable? Can't be one of my words. That's like one of my main words. Like, what are you talking about?
Judith: But like, that's, that's now the minimum baseline requirement. All of your clothing should be comfortable on your body or you don't wear it.
Priyanka: Hmm. Okay. So you're basically saying that like the way that someone might start even identifying what their sense of style is, is these words that just. Paints a picture of who they are and okay, so this is a little bit of a deviation, but I felt like for me when I was at my personal heaviest, I didn't like the words that I would have chosen for myself. And I mean, this is like, you know, I think a big thing that a lot of women are dealing with. They, they think, and I know I did is when I lose the weight or when I like reach my personal body goal, then I will know my identity.
Then I will be able to, you know, have that dream style. Then I can even think about myself in a way that feels powerful. I know that that was me for so long. So what do you, what would you say to someone like that? That's like, I just am not at the weight that I want to be. And so, Like, you know, some of these shoulder shrugs.
Judith: Yeah. I call it turtling. It's like you're right. I, I actually, I spoke to someone recently. I was at someone else's live event and she was really resistant. She's like, yeah, yeah. Body love, whatever. And I was like, wow, you got a lot of feelings. She goes, well, I don't want to be this weight. I don't want to be in this body.
So body positivity doesn't do anything for me. And I was like, I didn't even suggest you be positive about your body. This is so interesting. But I recognize what was going on for her, which is, I think, similar to what your clients probably struggle with is if I accept my body as it is right now, and I decide I'm going to dress the body I have now, I'm going to even try to love, or even let's just say like, not hate the body I have right now, that it's admitting defeat.
It's admitting failure. And I will be stuck in this. Body at this weight for forever and to some of our clients who have struggled with their weight their whole lives. That's like the worst thing we could ever try to invite them into like they can't even fathom it. So a great way to kind of, and this is you, dear listener, I say that to you to tell you, I love you. I see you. I get it. And I'm not going to try and sell you on body love because I actually don't even think. We have to go there, but it's important to ask yourself this question and then to mull it over if I lost the weight and I got to the ideal size, shape, weight, whatever the hell it is. I want right.
You get to choose whatever it is. You want. What would you then allow yourself to believe is true? What would you then allow yourself to think about yourself? What would you allow yourself to call yourself? What would you allow yourself to say about you? Because that gives us a window into you.
Really probably what your style already is, if you accepted that that could be true in this current body. Now you may not be there yet, but at least an opening, a window into how you might think about this. Is to imagine if all these things that you hoped to be true were true, then what would you give yourself the pleasure and allowance of thinking about yourself?
And then we can play from there.
Priyanka: Hmm, you know, I think as you're sharing that because it feels like it really touches home for me when I was at my heaviest. I think I, I felt I was very confident. I was like a contest. I was a confident person in the workplace and. you know, at home, but I was not confident about my body.
I was not confident around my body. I didn't feel like in control of it. I didn't feel good about it. And I think the thought I used to have is when I lose the weight, when I lose all the weight that I want to lose, then I will get to feel confident. about myself. That's what it, I would feel confident about myself.
So I felt really confident about my skills at my heaviest. I felt confident about my skills. I felt confident about my brain, but then I will feel confident about myself. That's what I told myself. And I think for so long, you know, when I was like basically living in Judith, I don't even know if I've told you this, but like, I, like I got close to target for a long time, which is fine.
Target has some really cute things by the way, but I kept those clothes. That size clothing that I was wearing at my heaviest, even as I lost a little over like 60 pounds, I didn't just like get rid of that. I didn't get rid of it. I was like, like, you know, it's, I'm not there yet. 10 pounds down, 20 pounds down, 30 pounds down.
Every decade of weight that I lost, it was never enough for me to be like, I'm still wearing, now at this point, I'm wearing loose clothing, by the way, it's probably years old, it's like tattered. And that is how I would dress myself at home, because I'm like, I'm not, I'm not there yet, so like, why go shopping?
Why take the time? Why spend the money on clothes? Like, I'm not even at that, I'm not even there yet, so like, why bother? And it's like, now, as I'm even sharing this with you, I'm almost getting a little choked up, because it's like, it's like, How was I treating myself along the way to, like, I mean, I don't even, I don't even know what to say.
It's just, it's bananas. I don't know. You, you take it away. Cause I might just start crying on the podcast. I know
Judith: we're socialized, right? We have goal clothing. What are your non food rewards going to be for your weight loss? And it's Like I had a client, she would hang this outfit and it was over a decade of hanging this outfit in her closet. It was too small for her. And it was her goal outfit. And I was like, how do you feel when you walk into your closet and you see your goal outfit? She's like, I feel terrible. Right? Like, so every morning you start out your day feeling terrible. And then you go make your food choices from feeling terrible and you expected what to happen on your weight loss. She was like, Oh, I didn't even realize I was doing that. Like gold underwear, gold lingerie, gold, I heard the gold bra, gold, whatever. So it's funny because we tell ourselves if you do this thing that you find tremendously difficult and really hard to do. Instead of that being the reward in and of itself. I'm going to tie it to this other thing that you have a really hard time with, and I'm only going to allow you to do this other really hard thing when you've done this first really hard thing. And it's like, Oh, let's talk about how humans are motivated. That is not how we are motivated. Not even close. Right. So part of what I like to tell my clients, we have to divorce these ideas from each other. If you want to go on a weight loss journey, you want to go on a gain weight journey, you want to go on a muscle journey, you want booty gains, you want slim, whatever it is you want to do to your body. Let's just separate that from how we care for it, how we dress it, how we lotion it, how we hydrate it.
Because those are two separate things. We've conflated them and that's how the media gets us to buy a lot of stuff and to buy into certain ideas and to spend a lot of money on things we don't need is to tangle these ideas. Right. When you lose weight, you can get the gold bikini. When you lose weight, you'll be allowed to go on vacation. Or how about we live our life, we go on vacation, we wear bikinis if we want to, and we can also be in a weight loss journey. It's not an if then or an either or, it's a yes and also this other thing.
Priyanka: Yeah, I, I mean like, I think for me there's like so many, there's, there's a few reasons. I, I think one is what you said at the beginning, the body love, body acceptance thing.
That's something that I, you know, I've coached my clients on and it's like almost it's this, not unfathomable, but almost like this, you know, you know, there's like the emoji, the brain exploding emoji. It's like that moment of like, wait a second. I didn't realize that I didn't have to hate where I was right now to hit my personal body goal.
Like just understanding that you may not love where you are right now. And I totally get it. But like, what if you didn't have to hate where you were right now to hit your goal? I think so many high achievers think that they'll become complacent. Mm hmm. That's what it is. Like, if I don't hate where I am right now and I think that's like our way of like muscling ourselves to take action, then I'm just going to become complacent and just like not care.
And that's just not the high achiever way. Like, listen, if you're a high chief listening to this, there's no such thing as you not caring. I mean, you care. You just don't have to beat yourself with a stick. That's been my experience. The second piece that you're talking about is what, what hit home for me is I used to think that when I hit my goal weight, that's when I'll deserve it.
That's when I'll deserve to spend money and time and care is the big one and care on myself is when I've proven to myself that I'm worth it. And the way that I would prove it to myself is by taking myself seriously. I mean, this sounds all like, if you wrote this down, it sounds reasonable on paper, but as I'm saying it out loud, I'm like, oh my gosh, Priyanka.
Really? You know, it's like, you know, when I've taken care of myself, when I've proven to myself that I can, you know, hit this goal, then I will deserve to spend the time, the effort, the money on dressing myself well. And I mean, It's taken, I mean, even to this day, I don't love shopping. I mean, I tell you this all the time, like Judith, I think I even posted on Instagram. I'm like, okay, I moved. I have to throw all these clothes, but I'm having a hard time getting rid of some of these target, tattered clothes. And you sent me a message like Priyanka, your skin deserves more than this. It's the deserving piece for me. I'm curious what you think about that.
Judith: Yeah. And I think I think it's kind of messy, right?
When we use the word like deserving or worth or value, because if you don't feel like you're good enough ever, those words aren't going to be helpful to you. They're just going to make you feel worse. So I kind of like to put it in terms of like, you are a human being, full stop. That's the only thing we need to know about you.
Like, we don't have to get you to believe in your worth or your value or that you're deserving because most high achievers are never going to believe that about themselves. It's like an uphill battle that we don't have to wage. Like you are a human. Okay, human, you deserve to have nice things sitting close to your body, like whatever is going to be closest to your heart and your skin, like surely we could have nice things.
Mm. Full stop, just because you're human, just because you're a being on the earth, walking around. Yeah. That's it, that's all we need to know about you, but that's even a hard sell, so I think kind of the way to ease into this is to take the idea of loving your body off the table completely. Yeah.
Priyanka: And just like not hating where you're at.
I think that that's like, yeah, I just, I, I just find, you know, and whenever I reflect back on those times where I did used to feel like that, I think I also feel this like a mix of gratitude that I even went on the journey, like even the fact, the fact that you and I are sitting here, if I listen a few years ago, if I ever could have flashed forward, like you're going to be, first of all, a style.
And image expert. And you're going to care about this. I would have laughed or I would have been like, I don't understand how that's even possible. Like what a leap, but I'm so grateful that I came first of all, that I met you and that I even came on this journey that I'm even like having this conversation because it's bringing up so much like how, in how many ways I was so curious and how many ways high achievers are holding themselves back because we are like prescribing to certain rules on what we are allowed to do, what we have to do first before we're allowed to care for ourselves and the image that we put out there. So if you could just think about like some of the practical tips that you would give someone that feels kind of like a novice, they're like, okay, I can see why this might matter. I can see how I maybe don't have to wait until I hit my goal weight or until I feel fully comfortable in my body. Where should somebody start just like dipping their toe in and getting started.
Judith: Personally, I think your underwear drawer.
Priyanka: I know. Okay. Yeah. You always talk about the underwear list. Let's go there.
Judith: Yeah. And anybody who's, if any of your listeners enter my role, I will be talking about panties. I talk about, I know, but I think it's the easiest point of entry for high achievers who think like we were thinking back in the day, right? Like, This is not important. I have more important things to worry about.
I don't want to spend money on this right now. I have to lose weight first. I have to get this degree first. Then I'm allowed to think about these things or then next thing is, well, I have to buy my house first and then fill in the blank because we've all been given this timetable on our lives about the progression of things and when we were supposed to do things by and how we were supposed to do them.
So then we get to, you know, Mid thirties. And we realized there's no more timetable and we have the rest of our lives to make it up. And we're a little lost.
Priyanka: I mean, that's enter, enter Priyanka. That's where I was like, Judith, like I'm like messaging, like, wait, so style, wait, what, what are we talking about?
Can we just bypass this? I actually realized for a long time. And I'm curious if anyone listening to this has ever felt like this, this will definitely apply to both weight loss and with style. I told myself for so long, when this part of my life is over, then I will pay attention to myself. So medical school, when med school is done, then I will focus on my body.
When residency is done, when attending life is done, when my kids are just a little bit older. And I came to the point, I'm in my late thirties at this point, tipping the scale at the heaviest I've ever been. I'm like, wait a second. This is supposed to be the good part of my life. I've worked really hard for so many years.
And is this it? I'm like looking around like, is this, is this meant to be the highlight? Because it's not feeling like the highlight. And it is a wake up call. Like, what if we didn't have to keep waiting for our life to... get easier or to get better to care for ourselves to invest in ourselves. I wonder what are the small little ways we could just start now.
So how does somebody start now with their underwear?
Judith: Yeah. So I think the underwear is easy because no one has to know you're not going to spend a ton of money unless you absolutely want to. And then you do you because there's some people out there in the world, but like, it's, it's an easy point of entry to just start to pay attention.
And so here's what I mean by paying attention. We need to pay attention to the fit of your clothing. Right? So if we just start with your underwear, we start with your panties, we start with your bras, like, do they fit you? Are they physically comfortable on your body? If not, then we just got to figure out what your size is, which allows us to pay attention to what your body's currently doing.
We get to pay attention to any sensory things that are annoying you. Do you hate tags? I have some clients who like, Everything has to be tagless because they will be driven mad. I have some clients who they don't like wires on their brass, so we've had to come up like, let's find out about you. Mm-Hmm. It's a great way to learn like physically what you don't like and physically what you do, like what you would prefer. Maybe you can't wear anything but cotton because lady part issues. So some of our Mm-Hmm. , you know, clients have, they have to wear cotton undies. Like, we're gonna learn a lot about you by just doing a little bit of paying attention with do my underwear fit?
Do I have any little annoyances that I've been ignoring that I can start to pay attention to? And then we could layer on things like bright colors and prints and patterns and textures. We could get more playful and like do something really fun if you want to, but even just at its heart, if we even upgrade.
Things that are not comfortable to something that is physically comfortable. We've learned a lot about you in the process. We've started to pay attention to you in the process. You start to develop a relationship with yourself in the process. And then we can do something else. We can start to talk about shirts, or pants, or shoes.
You know how many people have shoe issues? It's incredible, right? Like, we could start small, start to build that rapport with you, right? You could start to date yourself a little bit. Right. And then we can move on from there. And often my clients do, they start with their underwear drawer, they move to their closets, and then the rest of their house, their jobs, relationships, like everything gets a makeover.
But right. Let's just start with your undies.
Priyanka: Start small. I feel like this is speaking to the high achiever who is very, I know this is definitely, I mean, ask me how I know, because this is me. It's like very all or nothing. Like, oh, if I'm going on this journey, I have to like do all of it at once. I have that tendency.
Like I want to like do the whole thing. But. Sometimes that can also create a lot of overwhelm, which is then what feeds the whole, like, I don't have time to do this whole big overhaul. And I think what you're saying kind of maybe can give us all permission to like, let it be a small tweak first. Like, let it just be one small thing and like, let it be one step at a time.
Like, let it be slow to actually like see traction. I feel like this is like exactly what we talked about in weight loss. Like you don't have to throw spaghetti at the wall and change every single part of what you're doing. Like, what if one small tweak is just where you start, start feeling really good.
You start feeling better, sort of get to know yourself, and then you start layering things on, which I think is probably so much more fun and creates a lot more traction.
Judith: Oh, I think it takes a lot more traction. And I'll tell you, I've had clients, I remember one person in particular, we were doing closet clean out and she's like, I'm gonna do all of it this weekend.
And I was like, I really recommend you don't. So let's like clean up the mess we made together. And then let's make a plan for like, you know, 15 minute increments over the next week. You're totally going to get it done. I promise you, but like, I could see, right? She had that, that look in her eye and the high achiever look right. I'm like, yeah, right, just in the air. You can't see us. And we're like, Ugh.
Right. Yeah. Little thing. So I was like, oh shit, she's ramping up. I could just feel it. She's not gonna listen to me. So I was like, you know, you get to do you always, but this is my recommendation. So we, we meet a week later, she's like, oh my God.
So overwhelmed. You made a huge mess, didn't you? She's like, Oh my God, can I show you? So she, she tore apart her guest room. There was like, I mean, literally a mountain of clothing on her guest bed. And she's like, I should have listened to you. I was like, actually, this is the best thing that could have happened.
I need you to see like, this was not helpful to you. And I understand the desire to like go all in. And that's what movie montages are, right? Like movie makeover montages are like huge messes, right? We see Claire and her beautiful closet. And then later she's trying all those outfits for her date or, you know, pretty woman, except for we don't ever see her put shit back because they're salespeople, right?
Like messes are made. This is part of the process, but like. We have to plan for that because you're a real human. So dear friend, like, don't do that to yourselves. Please heed our recommendation. Yeah. Go small, go slow, clean up after yourself as you go along, you have important shit to worry about rather than a giant pile of clothing on your desk.
Priyanka: Oh my God. I can totally imagine myself doing that. And then after it's just being like, I need a break from this and like open up the Netflix, get the bottle of wine, like where are my chips? Like I need a break from the break. Like I need a break from the mess. Like, I mean, it's not not a surprise. Okay.
One last thing I want to talk about. I know, like, I feel. Keep this conversation going for one last topic, and I think this is such an important point that I think high achievers get we get a touch of this is sometimes because we have so many things that we love and care about. We really care about impact at work. We care about our family, our kids, so many things in our community and really in the world that the idea of. Spending either money or time or effort on just us, whether it's body goal or with clothing, it feels indulgent or frivolous and I, and I, the sense I get sometimes it's like we feel a little guilty.
So what would you say to someone who really does have this lion's heart of like wanting to create so much for everyone around them, especially kids and work, and because of that, they feel guilty at all. Taking time away, effort away, or money away for themselves. What would you say to someone like that?
Judith: A few things.
Like my brain's like, so let me, let me slow my brain drain down a little bit. I think you will be less effective in those roles if you're not taking care of yourself. So I understand the heart's desire to serve. everyone, whether it's your work colleagues, the work you do in the world, your patients, your clients, your children, your chosen family, your kid free, right? Like I get it. I see your heart. I love it. And I also think you'll be less effective in any of those roles. If you are not taking care of yourself. You'll be less and this is a prime example. I had a client. She had a huge board meeting and she had this really important idea. She was putting forward that was going to be implemented organization wide.
And she's putting together this proposal for this process to be implemented. That was proven within her own department. And she said to me, I don't want to hide this time. I don't want to hide this time. And it's, it's, it's like, I could feel her passion. She's like, it's imperative that we implement this process. It will save money. It will save lives. Like she had, I was like, girl, I'm already sold. I don't really fully understand your job, but like, I, let's do this. Right. Yeah. I was like, you don't have to sell me on the process. You have to sell them. So why are you hiding? She was like, I was so embarrassed last time I stood up because I was then suddenly like acutely aware that like my clothes weren't really great.
She's like, my shirt really didn't fit, it kind of gaped, so then I had to hold my body a certain way, and I was just really uncomfortable, and like, please, I don't want to do that this time. I want to go and be able to like, flail my arms, show them all the evidence, and like, the statistics and the research that backs up the process, like, okay, okay, I was like, that's what we want.
So right, she's extremely less effective if she's like, suddenly in the middle of that, like, oh shit. Oh, shit. This outfit's not working. And I've had the same experience. I wore Spanx that were too tight in the middle of this amazing oral argument, and I could feel my fat roll, like escape the Spanx. And I'm sure you all know that sensation, right?
Judith: And if they're like, put my hand in my pants and pull it up and find a way to do this strategically, like it's a distraction. And the same is true for like, if you're doing the mom pickup line and it's lonely when you're a really smart cookie and you're in your mid thirties plus to make friends as hard.
And then you go looking kind of cray cray. To the mom pickup line or the event with the kiddos and you're embarrassed and you want to shrink and hide, you're less effective in that role. And then that seems kind of cross like, Oh, should it really be all about our looks? I wish that wasn't the case, but I'm sorry, dear heart.
And I see your heart, but that is part of being a human is we have to show up with clothing on to do the things that we were meant to do in this world. So if you want to be effective in all of those roles, because you have a heart for service, you have a heart to achieve and be successful. Let's dress you for the different roles that you play comfortably, stylishly, as you define it, and then let's see, like, how distraction free and ready and able you are to really be seen and show up.
Priyanka: I love that. I love that. And I think that this is something that I... We'll shout from the rooftops, especially because I think you and I both have experienced the impact of investing in yourself with coaching, especially, but when you as a human are really taken care of, when you're given some care and you are seen and heard and your brain is leveled up in how you think of you, I appreciate it. I feel like we just show up so much more powerfully as moms or in the workplace or in your family and in every corner crevice of your life. But somehow I know that for me before coaching, I just didn't see that. I didn't know that it was a thing. I didn't know it was a thing. I was like, when I get to myself, I'll get to myself.
All these other things matter more. And I think what you and I have experienced, I mean, we've both become coaches for a reason, right? And left really like awesome careers is because of the impact of really. focusing on ourself too, so we can show up more powerfully the way we want. So thank you, Judith, for having this conversation. I feel like we could have kept going. There's, I had all these questions, by the way, I'd like to reach out to some of my, who, like some of my friends are serious fans of yours. And I was like, I want, I'm going to have Judith on the podcast. What questions am I going to ask? I have like a whole list of questions.
I didn't even get to my questions. Cause we should totally do a part two. I love it because there's so much more. And friends, if you're listening to this, if you love something about this episode, come and find us on Instagram, tag us, tell us your takeaways, tell us what you're loving. Do you share how people can find you on Instagram, on your podcast online?
And yeah, tell us how we can learn more about you.
Judith: Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram @judithgaton. And if you do an undies door clean out and you want to send me a snapshot of the pile and tag me, please do. I'm delighted when I get the host, by the way. And if you want to kind of come into my world and get some help along the way. You can listen to the Style Masterclass Podcast.
Priyanka: I love it. Judith. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. First for sure. Going to have to have you back. I hope you guys all today. Enjoy the episode. Bye. I absolutely loved today's conversation and I'm so grateful that Judith came on to talk about style and image for the high achieving woman. If you loved it, tag us over at Instagram.
I am on Instagram @theunstoppablemombrain and Judith is @judithgaton and tell us what you loved about the episode and what your takeaways were. If you're anything like me, you might've had some thoughts like it doesn't matter right now. I'm not at my goal weight yet. It might feel frivolous to spend time, money, or effort on how I dress myself, or I need to hit my goal weight to dress myself in a way that helps me feel the most powerful.
But I think today's conversation really shed some light on the fact that how we treat ourselves, how we treat our bodies and how we dress ourselves does in fact matter right now. With that in mind, I created an on demand high level training for the high achieving working mom so that you too can feel calm in control and powerful in any food scenario, especially during the holidays.
You can grab it for free over at https://www.theunstoppablemombrain.com/desire. It's such a good training. I really hope you enjoy it. And I hope you have an amazing week. I'll see you guys in your email inbox. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Unstoppable Mom Brain Podcast. It's been an honor spending this time with you and your brilliant brain.
If you want more resources or information from the show, head on over to theunstoppablemombrain.com.