Episode #32: Urges with Rachel Hart

Nov 08, 2022

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Rachel Hart is one of the coaches I look up to the most. I love her perspective on urges, desire, and our whole human selves. Today’s episode is a gem of a conversation and, by the end, I know you’re going to love Rachel just as much as I do.

Rachel is the host of The Take a Break from Drinking Podcast and a Master Certified Life Coach who works with people who want to drink less. But whether or not you want to drink less, the work Rachel shares is deeply impactful for any human who wants to take a break from overconsuming anything, whether for you that’s overeating, overdrinking, over-scrolling, or overworking.

Tune in this week to discover how to gain authority over your urges. Rachel is sharing why so many of us struggle to resist our urges, why willpower isn’t the answer, and she’s giving us her practical tips and advice for separating ourselves from our thoughts and urges, so you can have more agency over how you react when an urge comes up.


I’ve created a brand-new FREE masterclass and you’re invited! On Monday, November 14th 2022 at 12PM Eastern Time I will be teaching you all about The Antidote to Willpower and Weight Loss. We’re debunking willpower and freeing you from the need to tap into willpower as a solution for weight loss, because it simply doesn’t work in creating permanent change on the scale.

So, reserve your seat by clicking here!

Pre-enrollment for The Unstoppable Group will be opening right after this masterclass, from November 14th through 19th, so mark your calendars because spots are limited.



What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • Rachel’s story of overconsuming and why she decided to become a coach to help others stop overdrinking.

  • What Rachel believed about her urge to overconsume and the role of willpower, and how she discovered that the root of her problems was her thoughts.

  • The narrative of powerlessness that so many people have around their overconsumption.

  • Why you aren’t broken or powerless, and how to recognize the thoughts that are keeping you stuck in that belief.

  • How so many of us high-achieving working moms have been conditioned to consume without bringing attention to what we’re doing or listening to our body.

  • The power of separating yourself from your thoughts and desires so you can understand them better.

  • How to slow down your brain so you can see your urges and step into believing that you have agency over your desire to overeat.


Listen to the Full Episode:



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Full Episode Transcript:

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  • Hey, this is Dr. Priyanka Venugopal, and you're listening to Weight Loss for Unstoppable Moms episode 32, Urges with Rachel Hart. I am seriously so thrilled to bring you this episode with one of the coaches that I most look up to. I absolutely love Rachel Hart's perspective on urges desire, and especially our whole human selves.

    I first discovered Rachel quite a while ago, but it was during my advanced certification in deep dive coaching that Rachel came to do a workshop and I was officially hooked. So today's episode is seriously going to be such a gem of a conversation, and I hope you enjoy it. Before I share a conversation, I wanted to make sure that you knew about a few exciting things that are coming to the Unstoppable Universe.

    If you're listening to this in real time, I want to make sure that you have reserved your seat for my free masterclass, The Antidote to Willpower and Weight Loss. It's happening on Monday, November 14th at 12:00 PM Eastern Time, and you can reserve your seat at [00:01:00] theunstoppablemombrain.com/antidote

    you and I both know that we don't want or need more willpower to lose weight. We can try and if you're anything like me, you probably have you eventually fatigue and give up. It's the reason that you're so on point on Monday, and then by the end of the week it's all gone down the drain. This masterclass is an opportunity to learn how to lose weight without the drag.

    You're going to get a flavor of exactly what it's like to work with me, and right after this masterclass, I'm opening up available spots in my next intimate Unstoppable Group. 

    I've already opened up consults on my calendar because I want to connect with you, so you can head over to theunstoppablemombrain.com/connect and set up a time where you and I can talk about you, and then we're going to decide if we are a best fit.

    Because this next group is so intimate, I do wanna make sure that we are an absolute best fit. So make sure you head on over to my website and you can learn all of this information. I always have something for you, so if you're not listening to this in real time, you can head on over to [00:02:00] theunstoppablemombrain.com to see exactly what I have in store for you.

    Now, let's get into my conversation with Rachel Hart. 

    If you want to reach your ideal weight and create lightness for your body, you need to have simplicity, joy, and strategic decisions infused into your. I'm a physician turned life and weight loss coach for ambitious working moms. I've lost over 60 pounds without counting points, calories, or crazy exercise plans. Most importantly, I feel calm and light on the scale and in my life. There's some delicious magic when you learn this work and the skills I'm going to be teaching you. Ready? Let's get to it.

    Hello and welcome back, my Unstoppable friends. I am so incredibly thrilled to bring you such a special guest today- this is Master Coach Rachel Hart. 

    She is the host of the popular podcast, Take a Break, and she now has a Cliff Notes version called The Alcohol Reset, and I'm going to have her introduce herself in just a moment but I had to start by saying [00:03:00] that before Rachel met me or knew who I was, I have thought of her as a coach and mentor simply because of what she puts out into the universe. 

    I think it is deeply impactful for any human that wants to really take a break from any kind of over consumption, whether it's overeating, over drinking, over scrolling, over working, and I think that the work that she's doing is important and I'm just so excited that you're here and 

    Rachel: thank you. Thank you for that introduction. 

    Priyanka: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself, Rachel! 

    Rachel: Yeah, so my specialty as a coach is I work with people who want to drink less. So that could be less in a sitting, less during the week. It could be people who are actually like, I don't, I kind of wanna end my relationship with alcohol. So it's the kind of the whole spectrum of people who are just ready to kind of take a look at their drinking and say, You know what? I wanna find something that works for me. And what that ends up being is different for all [00:04:00] of my clients. 

    This was very personal work for me in my own life.

    I really had a love hate relationship with alcohol for the longest time. It was, I think very early on my way to access like my carefree, confident, outgoing self, and I hated that it was my way to access that part of myself. And I also recognized very early on that my relationship with alcohol actually felt very similar to my relationship with a lot of things that I tended to overdo.

    So I, for the longest time, described myself as someone who is missing an off switch in my brain. Truly believed that that was the case. I truly believed that when it came to overdoing things, whether it was drinking too much or eating too much or spending too much, or even like, I felt like I would overdo working, right?

    It was just like, [00:05:00] Well, I just work and work and work and work, and I really felt like. Something was wrong with me. Something was missing in my brain. I described it as missing an off switch, and I didn't understand why I couldn't rein myself in, why I had a tendency to go overboard. I also thought I had an addictive personality, if any of your listeners can relate to that kind of label.

    So I really believe that it was something inherently different about me, different about my brain, and you know, all of my attempts to change my drinking, change my eating, change all of the consumption in my life. I found that I just was on a seesaw for the longest time. Like I could say no, I could, you know, completely cut alcohol out or I could go on the diet and like cut out all the unhealthy food and that would work for a while.

    And then I would give in. And then I just like being back and forth on this seesaw. I couldn't understand what was going. It turns out , that I was [00:06:00] really misunderstanding how habits work. I was chalking it up to, Oh, there's something wrong with me. I was born this way. I have a long family history of people who have struggled with food and alcohol, so it must be in my genetics.

    And it turns out like, Oh no, I. I really just have to understand that my actions don't just happen. I never just pick up the drink or pick up the ice cream or, you know, put something into my shopping cart. They are connected to my thoughts and my feelings, and when I understood that, it's like, It really was like all said in the whole world made sense to me.

    And that's the work that I really want for everyone is to help people understand, you know, let's not just try to use all our willpower to change our behaviors. Let's actually get to the root cause of our behaviors, because then it's so much easier to change them. 

    Priyanka: Yeah, and I think that, you know, the sense that I got while you were speaking about, you know, thinking you don't have an off switch, What I think would come up for me and [00:07:00] probably many of my listeners, is this feeling of powerlessness.

    You know, it's, it's Friday night and we have been working really hard all week, and we are doing all of the things for all of the people in our life. And that Friday night comes along and it's like, Oh, but like, you feel that urge. It's like, I just want it, I deserve a break. And it feels so powerful in that moment.

    And I, I wonder, you know, what your, what your thoughts are around that experience where women are working really hard and they have this experience where they have that urge-- they want to give themselves something because they've just been giving so much in their week. And that urge, I know for me it would be for me, Friday night cheese crackers, and definitely like two glasses of wine, and now we're talking about the third glass. 

    And I think for me, which is why, you know, I think alcohol is interesting because I never felt like I had a problem with stopping with alcohol. But with food I'm like, Oh, but just a little more, just like another chip, [00:08:00] another another like, you know, cube of cheese.

    I'm just curious for you what you think about that feeling of powerless. In that moment, and how do we start to discover that switch knowing that we're not missing anything. Yeah, nothing's broken. We don't have to fix anything. There is already a switch there. We just get to like turn the light on. So how do, How do you think 

    Rachel: Well, I think the first thing we have to acknowledge is that there is a very strong. Cultural narrative that when it comes to some substances, there are people out there who are just, it makes them powerless. So we have to, like, we're swimming in that, right? Like we're swimming in that narrative. And so a lot of people really do feel like, well, that's what people say, right?

    Like, Some people just like they're powerless when it comes to alcohol. They're powerless when it comes to food. So we've got that kind of working against us. And then I think the next piece is we don't understand, again that. Once we start, whether it is eating [00:09:00] or drinking or whatever it, whatever it is we're consuming, that feels like we are powerless with the urge.

    We don't understand that every single time we make a move, we reach for the glass, we reach for the chip. There is a thought and a feeling, and so one of the things that I discovered in my own journey was this thought once I start, I can't. Once I start, I can't stop.

    And here's the thing, I was like, this is true

    I have all this evidence. Look at all these times that I have, whatever it was, alcohol or food, I had all this evidence. What I didn't realize is that the way, once you start to understand how your thoughts and your feelings are connected to your actions, you start to see that they are perpetuating themselves.

    So the more that we believe, once I start, I can't stop, the more that that thought creates the feeling of [00:10:00] powerlessness and then we are acting in response to that, we are creating more evidence for that. 

    Like that to me is the most powerful thing to really understand that what you're thinking, , you create more of, And so that's a big piece that I work on with people when they're doing work with me.

    It's like, let's understand first and foremost, what are your thoughts about your relationship with alcohol or your relationship with food? What are your thoughts about your cravings and your urges? And then all of a sudden when we start to uncover that, it's like, All right, well when you're thinking. 

    You know, more is better.

    Once I start, I can't stop.

    I deserve it. 

    This is a little, just more, 

    Just a little more. Just a little more, 

    Yeah. More won't hurt. 

    I'll be good tomorrow.

    I shouldn't waste it. 

    Right? It was expensive. It's healthy. I shouldn't waste it. 

    Once you start to understand, oh, the, all of those thoughts are creating feelings for you, then all of a sudden you get [00:11:00] this insight into, oh, This, it's like this unconscious, I don't know, kind of like ticker tape in your mind, right?

    That it's like constantly giving you this narrative that is creating desire. 

    It's creating that feeling of powerlessness, It's making you feel kind of justified in saying yes to more. And then it's all of a sudden then your actions reaching for another glass, reaching for another chip. They start to make more sense.


    Priyanka: And I, I love that you're using the word narrative because even, and you, you touched on this, this idea of like all of the times in the past that like, look at all the times that I tried and failed, or look at all the times that I gave in to that glass of wine or the nachos. I think that that is actually where powerlessness comes from when we think that our past is our best, or that our past is evidence our ability, our maximum [00:12:00] ability.

    Of course, we're going to feel powerless rather than like, Wait a second, that was my past. It does not have to inform my future. 

    Rachel: And also it doesn't inform your future because in my past, no one taught me about urges. No one taught me about my emotions. No one gave me any information about how to handle these things or any tools other than this kind of idea of: you should be able to moderate whether it is like whatever, whether it's alcohol, whether it's food. If you're not able to moderate, if you can't rein yourself in, you need willpower, you need to try harder, right? 

    So the tool that we're given is just kind of like, Work harder, , grit your teeth, use more willpower, and if willpower doesn't work, then there's something wrong with you.

    Like that I think is the terrible kind of narrative that so many of us are in. We're kind of like, Okay, well I should just be able to do this normally or naturally with zero instruction. It should be [00:13:00] this intuitive understanding that I have. If it's not intuitive, I need to double down on willpower and discipline or avoid.

    Right. That's another thing I need to like just not be around these tempting things, and if that doesn't work, oh, then something's wrong with me. I mean, that's what I believed about myself for the longest time. And of course I felt defeated. Of course. I felt like something was wrong with me. Yeah. 

    Priyanka: And I'll never figure it out.

    Right. It's almost like everything that you're saying and, and it's like, and see, and then I'll never figure it out, which, which I, I kind of get the sense that I think especially working moms have a very rigid way of defining what they're capable of because of this. And, and I even think about like, why is it that we get so attached to counting points and calories and plans and protocols and spreadsheets?

    I think it's because we don't trust ourselves in the moment and really understanding, Wait a second, My body is extremely intelligent. If I learned the skill, [00:14:00] actually we don't have one brain in our brain, in our heads. We actually have another brain in our body, and actually she's pretty intelligent. I've been kind of ignoring her.

    I'm so sorry my body. But if we learned this as a skill, it's a skill we have never been taught. If we learned it with practice, some effort, some attention, some awareness, what might open up for us tomorrow? Our past does not define that because we're learning this. 

    Rachel: Yeah, and I think that that piece is what's so often overlooked because we have been sold this idea of like, Oh, the solution is in the plan.

    The solution is in the points, the solution is in the diet, right? It's in this thing outside of me. And whenever you believe that the solution is outside of you, you're never gonna feel like you can trust yourself. You're never gonna feel like you can rely on yourself when in fact, just like you said, your body always giving you information. It is always giving you information about how something that you just consumed feels. 

    [00:15:00] And so often, you know, when I'm working with people, it's like, you know, are you actually consuming in a way where you're present with what you're consuming? Or are you totally distracted? Are you multitasking? Are you like, you know, eating lunch and. Responding to work email at the same time. Are you sitting on the couch watching something on TV and drinking wine? Like so often? The way in which we consume is not a way where we're bringing any attention or listening to our body. And also, We're not used to using our body as a cue to say, Oh, I guess I've had enough. We're looking at the plate, we're looking at the bag, we're looking at the glass, we're looking at the bottle to see how much the, is there. We're looking at the clock. . 

    Priyanka: Yeah. I mean, like I, I think about this all the time. How we have been trained probably since the age of two or three to make decisions for our based on the clock, based on what other people are doing, based on what the needs of [00:16:00] our surroundings are. 

    And so we get very practiced and it's almost memorized to ignore the needs of our body. I can think so many times in residency I would try to squeeze in some french fries for lunch. French fries would be my lunch in between cases, and I like no wonder I could have been hungry or not, who knows?

    But I might not get to eat for three or four or seven hours depending on what was coming up. It just goes to show it's not wrong that it happened, that's just the nature of medical training. But just to know, we have just trained ourselves to ignore the natural signals of our body, and it's literally sprinkled in every corner and crevice of our society.

    And now we get to just un memorize some of those. 

    Rachel: Yeah, some of this, And it really is, I mean, I remember the first time I did an exercise of mindful drinking. I mean, I did this around food as well, but I mean, I remember kind of being. This is really like, okay, mindful eating. Sure. We ha you know, like we're all supposed to eat. It's supposed to be innate, right? Like people always talk about like, [00:17:00] like, look how a baby eats. Say no when they want. You know, I look at, I have a three month old right now, and it's very clear when he's like, No, I do not want anymore. Right. But like, will this really work with alcohol? Especially because again, I always look to my past.

    I was always thinking, but I just always overdo it. 

    I always think more is better. 

    And when I was really tuning in, it was so fascinating, not only for me to be present with like how much am I actually enjoying versus how much am. Thinking that I'm going to derive enjoyment. Right. And that happens with food too.

    And then also just like watch my body be like, Oh yeah, I think I've had enough. Right? , I think there are actually signals that I'm getting. I always blew right past them. 

    Priyanka: and I think what you're talking about that the ability, and again, I always call these skills, these are skills that we just [00:18:00] maybe have the opportunity now as we learn about them to practice and put into our life, but to do that. What you're talking about, you, you hear your body with mindful eating or drinking to really hear yourself say, Okay, I think I've had enough to do that requires us to slow down, not just the physical consumption, but our brains. 

    I think I can think of so many evenings where my mind is going a hundred miles an hour.

    I'm thinking about my to-do list. I'm thinking about all the work I have to do for tomorrow, all the mistakes I made yesterday, what my kids need. And it's like I, because my mind is going a mile a minute, I'm not actually listening to that natural signal where my body's like, You've had enough. It's, you be blow right past it.

    So I'm curious what you think about that practice of mindfulness for, especially for those women that are just going in their mind, how they can take a break from [00:19:00] even that, like the speed of their thoughts to slow down enough to hear that.

    Rachel: Yeah. So much of what I teach really is about just starting to bring awareness to your urges, starting to bring awareness to those moments when you have the craving.

    So it could be like the craving before you start consuming. It can be the craving to have more. But you know, it's so funny, I was coaching on this exact thing this morning in my membership and someone was saying, I can't believe how powerful it is just to narrate. To myself, the cravings that I'm having.

    And so I talk a lot about, you know, instead of trying to talk yourself out of the urge or talk yourself out of the craving to be like, Oh, I notice that I have this desire, Oh, I notice that I want more, which, when I first introduce that to people, I think I get a little bit of an eye roll, like, Okay, what is that going to do?

    But it really does start to separate you [00:20:00] from this desire, from the thinking that you have, and that is very, very powerful. Like you really cannot underestimate how powerful it is to realize that you're not your thoughts, you're not your desire, right? 

    There's your brain, which was designed to find easy pleasure.

    To conserve energy and to avoid danger. Right?

    So that was the kind of like how the brain was programmed and then there's your ability to watch it and observe and see what it's creating in the think, feel, act cycle and understand, oh, I can shift it. Right. So I think for a lot of people, especially, you know, I'm a mom, I have two boys, Three months and four years old, and I'm kind of like, Oh, how did that happen?

    my four year old, I'm like, You were just a baby. But when your mind is going a mile a minute and you notice that you are having this desire to just be able to narrate, oh, I [00:21:00] notice that I'm wanting something, or I'm noticing that I'm feeling this kind of intensity or urgency for the chocolate or the ice cream, or I notice that I'm finishing the food off my kid's plate, right?

    I'm noticing that I'm, you know, I'm thinking like, Well, I don't want this to go to waste. 

    And so narrating that. It is a way not just to start to really get authority over your urges, but when you're able to do that, part of that is interrupting that kind of mile a minute. All the things I have to do, all the things I didn't get done, Everything that I have to remember for tomorrow and like that's why that piece is so powerful.

    Priyanka: Yeah. I think what's so, what's so funny as you're saying this, I remember, I think it was episode one of my podcast, I talk about the narrator tool. And it's really this, and, and I agree. I think that when we hear that for the first time, there is a little bit of an eye roll because it's like, Oh, but is that really gonna do anything?

    But I, I [00:22:00] think that what that speaks to is our relationship with ourself, right? So that inner monologue that we have, which is maybe a little contentious, or you have that urge and it's like, Ugh, there we go again. Or This is too much for me. Like we just have this inner monologue that we maybe have not been aware of, and it might feel uncomfortable to observe that monologue.

    It might be uncomfortable to actually catch those thoughts and feelings that we are having about ourself and, and I think that work of transitioning from, 

    Wait, this is not who I am, these are just a set of thoughts I'm having. It's just a sensation I'm having in my body. It's not who I am. It's like that little gateway that we have to start making space.

    And there's something that you said, and I think it might have been on your podcast. 

    Where you said urges have no power. And I think it just speaks so beautifully here to how we can start to feel maybe more like have more [00:23:00] agency in that experience. So when we observe ourselves, when we start narrating our experiences, our thoughts and our feelings, how do you describe for someone that's new to this work, to step into believing that?

    Rachel: Yeah. I think the most important thing, and what I have people initially do when they start working with me is we have to separate when you're feeling that urge or that craving or that desire, we have to separate out what's happening in your body from what's happening in your mind. And most people are like, What do you mean what's happening in my body?

    like, Huh. And I also was like, What? But to really understand, listen, we feel all of our emotion. We feel them in our body, right? We think a thought in the brain, and then it's going to release chemicals, right? We're going to have a then a corresponding kind of chemical cascade connected to that. And so when you're having that craving, when you're having that [00:24:00] desire or that urge, what is happening in your body?

    Most people initially are like nothing. I don't know what you're talking about. There's nothing happening there. But the more that you start to tune in, people will start to see like, 

    Oh, maybe I do feel like a little bit of restlessness. 

    Maybe I am noticing like some tightness in my throat or some salivating.

    I had one person I remember she was like, You know what? I noticed that my eyes got a little bit bigger, like that moment that I kind of like saw the thing that I was desiring, like my eyes opened a little bit. Maybe you notice like a difference, a slight, slight difference in your temperature or your breathing, or your heart rate.

    Listen, all of that is happening, so you start to separate out, this is what is happening in my body. And this is my story about it. And when you start to do that and you see the story and the story is like, Ugh, I hate urges. They never go away, right? They last forever. Like we have this very like high drama [00:25:00] story.

    Priyanka: It's one more thing .

    Rachel: I think that's a another thing I have to do. 

    Priyanka: Another thing that I have to do, and I hear you guys listen. For those of you that are listening and hearing what Rachel is saying, I hear you. I see what you're thinking. Right? One more thing. 

    Rachel: Yeah. Like one more thing.

    It's gonna last all night. It's never gonna go away. I'm not gonna be able to enjoy, you know, whatever it is date night, I'm not gonna be able to enjoy this meal. You start to see that there is a real difference between the dramatic story of your mind about the urge and its intensity and how terrible it is and how long it's gonna last, and how, if you don't say yes to it, everything that is gonna impact.

    And then really the subtle things that are happening in your body. And this is what happens. I mean, I swear when people are start working with me and they're brand new, it really is like in those first one or two weeks that they. Oh, I guess my urges aren't that big of a deal. , 

    Priyanka: that's, I think, Okay, so that is, I just wanna share [00:26:00] that I think that that is so important to, to bring some attention to, because we do have that very dramatic story.

    The narrative of like, Ugh, one more thing. One more thing. And it's actually like when we actually do this work of just paying attention and noticing with some attention, like it is some attention, it actually is not so big. It really is not so big. Yeah. Yeah. 

    Rachel: And so that's just like, that's such a powerful place to be in, to be like, Oh, there's the experience of the urge of the craving of the desire in my body.

    There's like the actual experience and then there's my story and these two things are not the same. And for all of you listening out there who are like, I don't think I have a story and I don't think I have any experience happening in my body, I know you're out there cuz that was me too. . It's there. You just haven't tuned into it, right?

    I promise you, I have not I've worked with thousands of people. , it is there. It [00:27:00] requires a little bit of slowing down, but when you start to separate that out, that is such a place of power and authority to be in because all of a sudden, instead of being at the mercy of your desire and the mercy of your cravings, you start to see, oh, I'm actually able to observe these two different things and they don't line up.

    And if they don't line up, then why am I having such intensity? If the urge or the craving is actually not that bad, why is my story so dramatic connected to it? And that's such a powerful place to start to see. I can start to shift this. I can start to change this and I can start to understand maybe it's not actually the chips, Maybe it's not actually the ice cream.

    Maybe it's not the prosecco. Right. Maybe actually what's going on here is that I'm ending my day with. Feeling a lot of anxiety or a lot of overwhelm or a lot of stress, and [00:28:00] feeling like I have to attend to everybody's needs, right, And take care of everyone in my family, and maybe actually what I'm desiring has nothing to do with what I'm craving.

    It's just that no one again has ever shown me a way to start to feel better because, I mean, I think about this from a very young age. The ways in which food was kind of given to me in a way to be like, Oh, are you feeling sad? Like, Oh, did you have a bad day? Like, let's get you something to eat. Right? 

    Priyanka: Or if you were cranky, it's because you didn't eat . Right? Like, it's like it goes both ways. Like, Oh, you're probably cranky because you haven't eaten food. We, we learned this messaging that food is the cure for our crankiness. Like, I mean, as an adult, I'm like, Oh, I haven't eaten. So that's why I'm cranky, hangry.

    I mean, where did hangry come from? It came from, , it came from this. It's like, it's absolutely, and there's two things that you said. One was this piece of like, if you didn't know, like, you know those people that are like, Wait, Rachel, I hear what you're saying, but [00:29:00] like, really nothing's happening in here and you're here, Rachel, promising you there is something happening.

    Don't beat yourself up or judge yourself for not having known, and for learning to listen to it for the first time. It's okay that you didn't know before and you're just learning it now. I think it's so important to give ourselves permission to be new to this and know it's okay cuz you just were never taught .

    Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I was taught like. Don't listen to your body. Right? Like, so I think about this a lot when I was starting to do my own work to really connect with my body, which it turns out I was like, Mm, I don't really wanna take up residence here. No thanks . That's right. 

     Yeah. Yeah.

    And so one of the things I remember I was , I was working with a somatic practitioner and before we would have these in person kind of sessions together and she was always. Are you comfortable, but are you really comfortable? Like, do you need another pillow? Do you, And I was like, Oh my God, lady, like, what?[00:30:00] 

    Like, it was so irritating to me. I was like, I'm fine, I'm fine. Like can we just get on with it? And she was like, Do you need to use the bathroom? Like, do, are you? And and I remember telling her at one point, You know what? I really hate going pee. Like I'm so annoyed when I have to get up from my desk and use the bathroom.

    It always seems like, Why are you interrupting me body? I don't, We are. This is not efficient. And I remember her being like, 

    Priyanka: It's not efficient to go pee. It's not efficient. 

    Rachel: Right. But I was, but I really was like, Oh God, I have to pee. And growing up I remember. I lived in Connecticut, my family, we would go to a little cabin in Vermont that was like six hours away and it was totally, I was given so much praise for holding, going to the bathroom.

    Right. And it was like, Oh, well, I guess your sister has to stop for a potty break, but you don't have to. And so there was so much that I was like, Oh yeah, don't listen [00:31:00] to your body. It's good to override the signals that your body is giving you and. I learned that at a very young age. And so it really, it's, it's been like a funny thing when I, when I talk about this work, like how many women can relate to like, Oh yeah.

    It's very annoying to have to go pee. Like, I don't wanna have to stop what I'm doing. I've got so much on my to-do list. I'm in the middle of working. Like why isn't my body cooperating? Yeah. And 

    Priyanka: I really think of it. I mean, I, I really think as, as I've been doing this work, how we have disregarded our. And here she is, like she's, She's literally the way I think of our bodies is our forever home.

    Who we've really been disregarding and like what if we just started to shift our relationship with her where she wasn't annoying us and it wasn't an irritation? And what if we just slowed again, It's like slowing down enough to patiently listen. And I think you were saying this earlier, the urges, It's never about the food.

    It's never the alcohol. I always say, if you're not hungry, [00:32:00] It's not actually food that you're wanting. There is something else. And how can we ever know if we've been disregarding our wants .

    Rachel: I think this is really powerful too. A lot of people, myself included, will have a story of like, Oh, I'm just someone who loves to drink.

    I'm just a foodie. So like we have the explanation for desire, so then we never dig any deeper. Right, and, and here's the thing. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with deriving enjoyment and pleasure from food and alcohol, Not at all. But when you are in this kind of relationship where you're on the one hand saying like, Oh, I'm just a foodie. I just love to drink. And on the other hand, you are not liking the results that you're getting, you are not liking how you feel after a meal. You're not liking how you feel the next day after drinking wine the night before. It is time to dig a little bit deeper beyond those, you know, explanations of like, Oh, I'm just, you know, I'm just someone who loves to drink.

    I'm just a [00:33:00] foodie. 

    Like, this is just who I am. It's like you don't, And also changing your relationship doesn't mean giving up on the pleasure of it. In fact, it means accessing more because now you're just consuming. For the pleasure, not because this is the way I'm gonna feel better. This is the thing that's going to, you know, solve the fact that I had a crappy day, that I feel so stressed, that I'm just like, cannot have one more person in my family ask me for something else that they need and like this is my me time.

    You actually get to have more pleasure in the choices you make about what you consume. 

    Priyanka: What you're speaking to, How can we start to differentiate the difference between actually creating pleasure out of consumption, Like whether it's your, your, the nachos or the wine versus using it to try to solve a work problem, A mom problem, a life problem, a relationship problem, like food and alcohol can never solve our emotional experience, food and alcohol can never solve. 

    But, but [00:34:00] that's what those urges are. I, I almost think of urges as like, our brain and body is trying to get our attention. Like, Hey, hey, I need some attention here. You're feeling stressed, you're feeling this, you're, you're feeling overwhelmed, and we've just used food and alcohol to try to solve it.

    Rachel: Yeah, and I will tell you, I know that there are people listening who are like, Okay, fine, that makes sense, But like, I'm not stressed and I'm not anxious and I'm not feeling overwhelmed. And so I think what happens is, is people hear us talk about negative emotions and they're like, That's not me.

    That's not my experience, that's not my life. And so I'm always like, Okay, so how do you feel when you say no? Like when you have that desire, right? And then you say, No. If it's not a problem, if there's no negative emotion there, then why don't you want to say. 

    No, , and then all of a sudden it's like the relationship with deprivation, the relationship with fun.

    I mean, so I want everyone hearing us talk about this, like we're [00:35:00] not saying that your life is bad and that you're miserable. What we're saying is that there is an emotional component and sometime that emotional component. I mean, I work with so many people who are. . No, no, no. I get deprived in all these areas of my life.

    I am not depriving myself here, and so I just want to offer that to the people listening who are like, Okay, I'll, you know, that's all fine and good, but like, that's not my experience. When you try to say no. If you feel like you don't want to, if it feels like you are missing out, then you are having an emotional experience connected to it and it's just, it is worth it to you to get curious on what's going on there.

    Priyanka: Yeah, and I, I can think of so many times, and this is kind of speaking to what you were just saying, where when I weighed a little over 200 pounds, I used to really think I have such a good on life paper. I didn't have like massive stresses or massive [00:36:00] overwhelm or massive, you know, uncomfortable emotions in my day to day.

    I had a good on paper life, two kids, a very loving partner, a practice that I loved, and yet I just felt I wasn't getting something. And I think that that was, you know, the idea of not having my cheese crackers and glass of wine felt like I'm not giving myself what I deserve. I'm not giving myself, you know, I, here I am, like I have everything.

    I don't know why I'm feeling this way, like a little, just me not getting something that I, I believe I need. And, and I think the cheese crackers and glass of wine felt quick. It felt like a very simple, quick fix. And it did fill that, which is why no wonder I created every evening of the cheese crackers .

    Rachel: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's so important too, because so many people try to talk themselves out of their emotional experience. And it sounds exactly like what you said. Like what do I have to complain about? And let me tell you, before I became a coach, I worked in human rights for 10 years, right. No, I know [00:37:00] people who have something to complain about, right? Like I know actually what is going on for people and like really like who is this? Like, you know, 20 something white woman like boohoo. Right, and, and I think that that's so important. It does not matter who you are, where you live, what your circumstances are.

    You're human, which means you're gonna have the full emotional experience. And sometimes that emotional experience is going to be negative. And when you try to talk yourself out of it, when you try to say, Oh, but this is silly, and I. Healthy family members and I have a roof over my head and I have clean water like that.

    All sounds well and good, but all you're doing is denying yourself the fact that. It's okay to be human and have the human emotional experience and feel stressed sometimes. And it's okay also if those things are quote unquote silly because the cortisol is being released either way, [00:38:00] right? It doesn't matter.

    Priyanka: I think women like a. I think working moms do this a lot with the idea of comparing, like so many people have it so much worse, and especially if you look at the climate in the world. Right now there is so much happening that it, it makes a lot of sense that we do that right?

    It makes a lot of sense that we compare to so many people have it so much worse than me. And I think that what that does sometimes is it just disregards our emotional experience. And I think that what we get to do in coaching and what we kind of get to uncover is what if one doesn't disregard the other?

    What if me, recogniz that I have an emotional experience, that I have some deeper wants and needs. It's not disregarding what's happening in the world. It's just I can have space for both. 

    Rachel: Yeah, I can have space for both, and I actually can give more to the world when I'm honest with myself and acknowledge that yeah, sometimes I feel [00:39:00] totally overwhelmed and stressed out, and I have negative. And that's okay. And I'm not trying to eat over them or drink over them, or work over them or accomplish over them, right. Then I actually have more energy to give the world, like this is what I talk about all the time with people.

    Is that the reason why I think that this work. That everyone listening to this podcast is so important is not because it's like, Oh, then I'm gonna figure out my weight, then I'm gonna figure out my eating. It's like when you can do this deeper work to understand what's really going on, you free up your mental energy for why you are here.

    Like you were not put on this earth. I don't think that anybody was put on this earth to worry about their weight and to count calories. And for me, like I remember, think. Well, why can't I drink like everyone else? That was not my purpose, , but I was using so much mental energy in that spin of like trying to figure out eating and trying to figure out [00:40:00] drinking and trying to figure out relationships and like trying to figure out all the things instead of using my mind like, The human brain, it's so powerful and so many people are caught up using that power for like, Well, how do I get the scale to change?

    And there's nothing wrong with that. Like there's nothing wrong with having that desire. But I just like seeing this work as the stepping stone, like I figured this out. So it becomes a stepping stone to like, what do you wanna do? What are your like big dreams and desires and goals? What do you wanna go after?

    That's the exciting stuff in life and our fixation with what we're consuming and feeling like we're out of control and feeling like we're powerless and once we start, we can't stop. All of that is actually what's blocking us from that path. 

    Priyanka: Right. It's why the diet industry is booming. We think that when we lose the weight, then we'll somehow feel better when we, you know, learn how to quote unquote say no, [00:41:00] then we will feel more confident or calm around food or alcohol. And I think what we are talking about is like, what if we could befriend our whole human self?

    Sometimes when we feel good and sometimes when we don't, what if we could befriend ourselves and actually learn how to feel lighter in our mind first as we lose the weight, like all, all of a sudden the world really opens up. We get to expand our capacity so much more. 

    Rachel: Yeah, we just get to zoom out.

    Here's the thing, I mean, You know, I work so much with food as well, because so many people find like, okay, so they start to change their drinking or they're drinking less, or they're taking a break and then all of a sudden they're, they're eating more. Right. And so, and it happens in the reverse, right? You start to cut back on food and then it's like, Okay, but like, we're not gonna take away my wine.

    Right? And then, Or less, or Instagram 

    but I, you know, I was talking about this recently and I was saying like, you know, if you have negative thoughts about your body, about this place where you reside, like [00:42:00] those thoughts have become patterned in your brain.

    They become a habit. Like we have habits about what we say to ourselves every time we catch our reflection in the window or we look at ourselves in the mirror, or we put on a pair of pants. 

    Changing your appearance does not change a habit. Right? And this is why I think it's so unsatisfying for so many people.

    They're like, I'm gonna feel better. I'm gonna feel better. I'm gonna feel better when I finally get to that magic number. This is what I believe for the longest time. And then you get to the magic number, and I was like, Oh no, I'm still me. like and I, and yes, you changed your consumption, but if you haven't done the deeper work to look at, what are those kneejerk thoughts that I have every time I see myself in the mirror, and I will tell you mine was, ugh.

    That's just what it was. It was like I'd catch a reflection on myself and like, Oh God, is that what I look like today? That thought was never changing until I did the work on it. It was never gonna change, right? By changing a number on a scale or changing something about [00:43:00] my appearance. And so like that's the lie that we're fed. Like if only you can change this thing, then you're gonna feel better. You, then you 

    Priyanka: Oh, look at me. I'm so beautiful. It does not happen when the number of the scale goes down, right? 

    Rachel: your thoughts become habitual and your brain's not gonna drop them unless you do the work to start to intervene with those thought patterns.

    And that's what's so important. You know, I mean, and that's the piece that I think is missing so often and why so many people end up, you know, gaining the weight back. Or, my experience also was like, I would take a break from drinking and then after a while I'd be like, Oh, okay, no problem. I feel good, this is great. And I'd. Feeling like I was missing out and I'd go back and it was like right back where I started because I wasn't actually changing the underlying habit.

    Priyanka: That that's where coaching specifically, we really get to dive into that and like bring so much. I think awareness, even again, people might roll their eyes about awareness, [00:44:00] but like how awareness around our thought habits, our feeling habits, our action habits, like how they make complete sense. 

    Nothing was broken or wrong that you created them. They make complete sense. What if we got to understand how they made complete sense and brought so much awareness to it? I can still think, I mean, I was talking about this a couple, uh, of months ago. I cannot find very many pictures of myself with my children.

    They're now seven and four. So when they were younger, all of my photos are with me. Like part of my face is cut off or I'm hiding behind a stroller or like my kids are in front of me, or like, I'm like behind my husband who's like naturally thin, like I'm hiding behind people and I'm like, smooshing my F like it is, You know?

    I have so much compassion for that part of me who thought she had to hide. Parts of herself. And you know, I think that what we get to do is if you really want to lose the weight in a permanent lasting way, we [00:45:00] have to see ourselves as not broken, or not gross, or not u you know, I think it's like you look and you're like, ugh.

    Like how can we bring so much love there? I think people think that's foreign. It's a foreign concept that I don't even know where to begin with that. It, it starts with what we're talking about. 

    Rachel: Yeah. I think the best thing too in that I always wanna remind people when they're like, Well, I just dunno how to be nice to myself.

    Or, I've just always been really hard on myself because that's how I've gotten stuff done, or that's how I accomplished all the things that I accomplished in my life by being, you know, really tough on myself. Everyone listening has someone out there, whether it is a friend or a family member or a child who they know exactly how to be compass.

    And kind and bring grace and understanding. Like we all talk about it as if it's some sort of mystery and we have no idea how to do it. And it's like, mm, just look at how you talk to your best friend. Like look at how you talk to the [00:46:00] person you love the most in the world. And the things so often that we say to ourselves, we would never say to them.

    And so I'm always. Listen, this is great news. You already know how to do this. You're just not used to redirecting it towards yourself. That's all we're learn. We're not learning how to be compassionate or be kind. You already know. You do it all the time. You're just redirecting it to yourself. That's what you're learning how to do, and 

    Priyanka: that's actually what you deserve.

    When you think at the end of the night or the end of the week, like, Oh, I deserve, fill in the blank, what you actually. Our deserving is this, you said something, this was at, I'm trying to think of which event or where you said this and it just resonated with me so much. You said that you put a photo of

    Rachel: oh yeah. She's right above my screen. Of your younger 

    Priyanka: self, Kind of at the top of your computer. And when you kind of ca, and this is for anyone listening, if you catch yourself being, you know, you might not think you're being critical, but if it feels kind of harsh, like it's subtle sometimes. Ask yourself, would I say this [00:47:00] to a child?

    Would I say this to my three year old or my four year old? Likely the answer is no, and if you just notice it in that moment, we don't have to make you wrong. It's just practiced. It's okay. It's not a problem. And we have this invitation right now to be like, Wait, if I wouldn't say this to a three year old, how?

    What would I say instead? I think to me, like when I think of a tangible, actionable step, it's like, imagine that you were talking to your younger three year old or four year old self. How would you talk to her about, 

    Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. And would you say things like, Well, you really have nothing to complain about, right?

    I mean, I know you're telling me that you feel anxious, but. You know, look at your life. Right? Or sometimes it even, I think why that exercise was so powerful for me is because there was a lot, I had worked on the very obvious negative self talk when I, you know, first was introduced to coaching, and what I discovered was a lot of it was not so obvious.

    So I would say things like, Well, I don't know how you did that, [00:48:00] or, It's not that big of a deal, right? So I would say that to myself about things that I was doing in my life. Like, yeah, okay, but it's not that big of a deal. And it's like, Oh no, say that to. Like say that to her that what she just did, what she just accomplished was not that big of a deal or that it was a fluke.

    Right. Yeah. This is a huge thing that 

    Priyanka: women do such a huge one, and like I will see women, they will lose a few pounds and they like don't know how to take pride and credit in it. Just again, it's another conditioning, which could probably be a whole separate podcast and we could talk for three more hours on this topic, but we don't know how to take really steep ourselves in.

    We're so used to like, like giving look, Oh, I, I don't even know how I did that. Or, It's probably not repeatable. I probably can't do that again. Like, 

    Rachel: imagine saying that to your three year old self just did something. Oh my gosh. It's probably not repeatable. You probably can't do that again. I don't know how you did that.

    It was a fluke. Like you start to notice, like that's what was so powerful for me about that exercise is like you start to notice [00:49:00] how unbelievably cruel that language is that we just be like, Oh, I don't know. It's not a big deal. It's the fluke. And then you say it to her and you're like, Oh yeah, that's, That is really unkind.

    Priyanka: Yeah, and we don't think we're doing it. I think that that's the why it feels subtle, at least for me. I always, and I've said this before, I'm someone that has generally been an optimist. I'm a glass half full kind of. I've thought of myself that way my whole life. So for me too, and this came up with my deep dive advanced certification, really, I started to uncover like, wait a second.

    I have been thinking here. I have no inner critic. And I'm like, Oh, she's just real flowery. She just sounds really good on paper. Like she just sounds like very subtle for me, and I think that that was why the work there was so impactful was I was like, Oh, my inner critic is not so harsh. She's not so loud she's very subtle. 

    But if I would ever say this to a child, I, I would never, I would never, never feel te 

    Rachel: This is what I want everyone listening to know, is that the work that you are doing to change your [00:50:00] relationship with food, Or if you're listening and you're like, Actually, maybe I need to change my relationship with alcohol too.

    This work, it's the stepping stone for what we're talking about. Like me struggling with my drinking and struggling with eating and struggling with like feeling like I consumed everything too much and I didn't have an off switch. It literally, without that struggle, I would not have been able to uncover, Hey, how does my mind work and how do I harness it and how do I start to change it?

    Like to feel like you really can change your mind, that it's not just set in stone is so powerful. How do I learn how to be kinder to myself? How do I go after my dreams and my goals and the things that I'm like, I really wanna do that, but it kind of terrifies me. That all happened because I was once where you were right.

    All of you listening in this place of like, I can't figure it out. This is too hard. I looked at my past and I said, I have so much evidence that I'm always gonna be this way and I'm [00:51:00] missing an off switch. The struggle is what led me here. So for all of you feeling like. Why do I have to deal with this and I wish this wasn't my problem, and why can I be more like, you know, my husband or my wife who like just is naturally thin and they know when to stop.

    This is actually, if you do it this way, it can be the launchpad for so many amazing things in your life. 

    Priyanka: So, I mean, everything you're saying right now, it just reminds me how, even though in the moment I would not have agreed with you, I would've argued with you when I was like 200 pounds and I'm like, You know, this is annoying and I can't believe, why can't I just lose the weight already?

    I am so incredibly grateful to that part of me that that version of me that was there, I am so grateful that she had to have those experiences to be open to anyone that's listening to this right now. Just to really see how you're here right now and how you have had to have these experiences to be open to what we're even talking about.

    Rachel: Yeah. I was like, you [00:52:00] know that part of me that was like, Drinking too much and eating too much. Like she loved me so fiercely. She was just trying to figure out, I don't know what to do with the, with how I feel. I don't know how to handle these cravings. I don't know what to do with these emotions. And she was just doing what she knew how and what she had been taught to help me feel better.

    And now it's like, okay, so we just needed. Like up level, her skill set. That's it. I wasn't doing anything wrong. I wasn't a bad person like that part of me was fighting so fiercely for me. But just fighting with like the very limited range of tools. That's right. 

    Priyanka: And that's what we get to explore here.

    Learning new skills, learning new tools. Because it would feel so good to give that part of us as fighting, she can have a break. She can go take a rest because we are here. Learning these skills. So Rachel, I would love for you to share with everyone how they can learn more about you, how they can find you if they are [00:53:00] interested in your podcast.

    Tell us everything . 

    Rachel: So I have a weekly podcast called Take a Break From Drinking. It really does like all of these skills, apply well beyond, well beyond alcohol, which is probably like one of the most common things. I hear it from people and they're like, Oh, it turns that I can use this.

    Everything in life. I have a little Cliff Notes version for that cuz I've been doing it for years. So if you're like, well, where do I even begin? I have a little version called The Alcohol Reset that you can sign up for. You can just go to the alcohol reset.com. And I also have a membership. Where people who want to do this work with me can join me and work with me and, you know, work with me every week and start to change their relationship.

    And I will say the, one of the very first modules that we do, right after working on that first month of alcohol, we go immediately to food. Right? Because that is like, so many people kind of flip flop back and forth between the two. It's like, okay. Like don't, don't take my treat away. Like what's my treat gonna be

    And so for all of [00:54:00] those things, you can go to rachel hart.com and find out more. 

    Priyanka: Yeah, this is so good. And I think for anyone listening part of really, and I was telling Rachel this before we started recording, is what resonated with me is that this work, it goes deeper than alcohol or food or scrolling.

    It goes to really understanding that we are over consuming because we are trying to avoid distract from or create an emotional experience. And what if we just learned how to do that, without over consuming. I think that that's like why I think this work resonates so much with me, but thank you so, so much.

    Thanks for having me being here. This has been such a great conversation and I feel like we could have kept talking for like four more hours, but we had this time and I hope that people reach out and learn more. 

    Rachel: So good. Thank you! 

    Priyanka: Guys. I have a brand new free masterclass coming your way on Monday, November 14th at 12:00 PM Eastern Time.

    We are going to dive into The [00:55:00] Antidote to Willpower and Weight Loss. Here's why you absolutely have to get yourself into this masterclass. Most simply, willpower just doesn't work for permanent change on the scale. You'll know that this is you. If you've tried to force yourself to follow your plan or eat those perfect foods because you think it will help you lose weight.

    Sure it works for a few days or a few weeks, but it just doesn't create permanent results. I see you and it is the reason that I have created this masterclass just for you. Because more unstoppable ninjas can free themselves from lying on willpower. I highly recommend that you come live, but if you cannot make it, don't worry.

    When you are signed up, you will absolutely get access to the replay. Head on over to theunstoppablemom brain.com/antidote to reserve and I will see you in your email inbox with all of the details. 

    And also pre-enrollment for the next intimate Unstoppable Group will be opening right after this masterclass.

    Spots are limited, so make [00:56:00] sure you have marked your calendars and get yourself ready. This is going to be your opportunity to do the work that we have been talking about here intellectually and implement it into your real life. I cannot wait to see you so soon. Bye. Thanks for listening to Weight Loss for Unstoppable Moms.

    It's been an honor spending this time with you and your brilliant brain. If you want more information or resources from the show, visit theunstoppablemombrain.Com.

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